Group Sandtray

Rachel: One of the most intriguing and rewarding experiences that people have on the retreats is going to the sandtray room with you. And I thought a good place to start is to talk about this room and what's in it. It's a very unusual place. Want to say something about how you set it up?

Marion: We have developed a very special room for the purpose of exploration through play. The room is the size of a small bedroom. In the middle of it is a big sturdy table. There are shelves on all the walls of the room. On these shelves are many objects and toys that we've collected over the years at Commonweal. The collection represents every aspect of life-animals, people, houses, the spirit, the emotions, the body and all the institutions of our culture-medicine, law, education and the like. All of life's experience is on these shelves. The room is carpeted and cozy. It's an inviting room-a room where people can basically feel comfortable.

Rachel: Say something about the sandtray itself.

Marion: On the table in the middle of the room is the sandtray; a box filled with sand.

Two chairs are on either side. One chair is for me and one for the person who is working the sand. The chairs have pillows and swivel and are very comfortable. The table is surrounded by the shelves filled with toys. There's a window where the light can come in naturally, and there's also a very good lighting system so people can see the shelves and the hundreds and hundreds of items on them.

Rachel: Say more about what's on the shelves.

Marion: All the stuff of the world is on the shelves. For each person who does the sandtray, this will be a different collection. Different people will pick different things. Each sandtray will be quite a unique creation in and of itself.

Rachel: So, we're really talking about thousands of objects.

Marion: Correct, but they're very carefully arranged, although I've seen some sandtray rooms that are quite messy. But in my own room, while there's a certain order, I try not to be too tidy or people feel they can't touch things or that the room "belongs" to the person who created the order instead of them.

Rachel: There are other things too. There are little cards with words on them like "tenderness" and "compassion" and "love" and "relationship" and "courage". Then there are cards with pictures of all the different animals on them.

Marion: That's right, the medicine cards and the angel cards.

Rachel: There are candles. And you have a lot of living and natural things: flowers and branches and rocks and feathers.

Marion: I often pick things just before sandtray, so they're fresh. Or you can buy artificial flowers and whatever you feel would be useful.

Rachel: Let's see if we can work out the categories, because as you know, you helped me to build a sandtray in my office where I see my patients with cancer one-on-one. It's much smaller than your sandtray, but it was really wonderful working with you to build it. It was a great deal of fun.

Why don't you name a category, and I'll name another one?

Marion: I like to start with the category of "real people." It took me a while to get a lot of real people in my sandtray. That means families of different colors: Black, White, Chinese, Native American. Different ages. Lots of babies. I have a whole drawer full of babies. Then we have the archetypal type of person: the queens, the shaman, the witch and the wizard and all of those. The magical people. And then there are knights in armor, priests, and people that represent different jobs, such as diggers and farmers and nurses and dancers and doctors. People in different categories. We have the devil. We have angels, lots of angels. So we try to cover all people forms from imaginary to real.

Rachel: And then we have the animals which also run the gamut from the domestic animals to the wild animal to the mythical animals-the flying ones, the birds; the four-footed; the fish. Very popular are snakes and the monkeys. And elephants are important.

Marion: And we have eggs. Eggs are very symbolic. Mirrors, too.

Rachel: And butterflies and other transformation symbols.

Marion: Owls.

Rachel: One whole wall is animals, isn't it? Important to have a wide range of animals. Animals embody symbolic qualities for people as well as representing love. And they can be different sizes too. They can be very small to very large.

Marion: Lots of spiritual symbols. The Buddha and dancing Sivas and crosses and Jewish stars and crystals. And spiritual items such as the rosary, the cross, candlesticks, candelabra.

Rachel: Native American symbols. Totem poles, Kachina dolls, shamans and masks.

Marion: Houses. We have houses and furniture. We have houses of different sorts: the castle. The home. Monuments. Churches and synagogues. A tower. The Eiffel Tower is very, very popular for some reason. Things like the Statue of Liberty. Things that are that symbolic.

Rachel: The things that I like, Marion, are things that hold other things together or separate other things. And you have more of those than I have in my sandtray. For example, you have this long, long, long string of silver beads with silver hearts interspersed among them and people often use those.

Marion: Things that hold things together connecting forms such as the bridge, or the ladder, or things like fences or blue stones to make rivers or other stones that people can put around to make paths.

Rachel: You know what one of my favorite things is? You once had a bag of white beans, tiny little white beans. And I made paths out of them in a sandtray.

Marion: Yes, separating and connecting things. That's good. And also in that category, of course, would be vehicles such as cars and trains and airplanes and horses. Things that you can ride. Boats. These are very important because we are all on a journey and we travel in different ways.

Rachel: And then just "things." Money and buttons.

Marion: Mechanical things, gizmos and hinges.

Rachel: Crystals. Just things.

Marion: Bones. I have actually some skeleton forms from Mexico's Day of the Dead. Symbols of death.

Rachel: I have a little tombstone which almost everybody uses.

Marion: Where do you find all these things?

Rachel: Often people give them to me. I remember when you were first doing this before I got into it, I would give you presents. And everything that I gave you ended up in the sandtray room. And I used to get so irritated with you! Now everything you give me ends up in my sandtray!

Marion: That's the fun part, really. The first place to start, of course, is in your own home. You'll be staggered when you set up your sandtray room by how many objects you have at home that you can share in your practice. From there, I took trips to the flea market.

Rachel: The flea market is a very good source of sandtray items?

Marion: Yes, and also people who have done sandtrays tend to bring in the missing objects. Often they find that there is something that wasn't there that they had wanted. So gifts often come. There are also many catalogues where you can send away to buy sandtray items. We have a listing of available items included for readers.

Rachel: Toy stores are wonderful. You once told me to go to the cake art stores. I didn't think you were serious. You know, they are fabulous place to get things.

Marion: That really was where I began my collection. Which brings up the "bride and groom," a very important symbol. It's surprising what you'll find in a cake art store in the way of symbols that people really resonate with.

Rachel: Now, the best place that I have ever found, is in downtown San Francisco. I would imagine most cities have places like this. It's like a warehouse where you can go and get party favors, full of party stuff and artificial flowers and Christmas ornaments and things like this. It takes a certain ingenuity. You can find a sandtray object just about anywhere. You can be given it as a birthday present. Usually you recognize it can go into your sandtray room because it has some kind of symbolic value.

Marion: A very economical way is to make your own sandtray objects out of clay, which I did because I was very frustrated when I could not find some forms that were expressive enough of feeling. That's a fun thing to do with a friend-make a whole bunch of objects and fire them in the oven.

Rachel: Let me talk a little bit about the objects that you did make. There's a woman with one breast, on her knees with her arms upflung like she's crying out to God. And then there's the woman with a hole where her heart is supposed to be - and the big woman with eight breasts in two rows and her hands outflung to embrace the world.

Marion: There's a mother with a baby on her back. A very loving form. There are lovers. It's hard to find lovers. There are people in different types of embraces of warmth, of sharing.

Rachel: There was a man under a large load, under a burden.

Marion: That's right. Really bent over.

This was a wonderful thing to do and I do recommend it for people to enrich their sandtray when they have the time to do it. Or even have a workshop where people gather together and make forms for sandtray.

Rachel: It is really interesting to me to see the look on people's faces when they first open the door of the sandtray room and see what is there. All these toys. Many people, I think, have not had a chance to play. They've not been given permission to imagine or to be creative. Many people have been cut off from their own creativity. Sandtray is an invitation to reclaim creativity in a very easy way. You don't have to be able to draw. You don't have to be able to do imagery. All you need to do is select items that appeal to you from the shelves and make a scene in the sand.

Marion, if I were to do a sandtray with you, what would you say to me, how would we begin, how would you lead me through the process of making a sandtray?

Marion: Well, the first thing I would do is really welcome you into the room in a very warm way and just share your delight in all these toys. I go through a whole process of being sure that people are comfortable with the light, the placement of their chair and that this setting feels good.

I find it real important to take the first five minutes of the sandtray time (which is about forty-five minutes total) to sit down together and have the person I'm working with simply put their hands in the sand. In silence. Just to experience the empty space. So seldom do we have a chance to experience that empty space in our life. The possibilities.

Rachel: You know, many people who are ill are trying to avoid that empty space. That space represents loss. So you encourage people to experience it as opportunity, as possibility.

Marion: Possibility and adventure, all those good things. We just sit there for a moment, hands in the sand. I ask the person I'm working with to close their eyes and just breathe. I suggest with each exhalation they imagine breathing out any fear they have or judgement. Those are the two biggest blocks to creativity for many people.

Rachel: Fear and judgement.

Marion: Breathe them out. I ask them to breathe in relaxation, trust and playfulness, just making more space. So we do some breathing together. And then I put on some soft music if they'd like to have music to help relax.

Rachel: What music do you use, Marion?

Marion: I offer, actually, three different types of tapes: one is very relaxing music such as the Pachebel Canon, which is a real favorite for people. It seems to be non-intrusive. It just opens up the heart a bit. Enya's tapes are very touching, more emotional, they bring up the emotions a little bit more. And lastly, I have energizing music such as drumming or jazz tapes which are helpful for some people. I show the tapes and ask if they'd like to have one playing while they work. Silence is important to some people.

I offer choice. Then I ask them to pay attention to their hands and to the center of their hands where the heartbeat is, and see if they can really feel their heart in their hands. And then I ask them to do a very special thing which is to connect to the earth and to spirit. I do this in order to really help them feel connected to a wider reality, the context in which this is all really happening.

Rachel: So, you start connecting then to something unseen, but more universal, right at the beginning.

Marion: Right at the beginning, through the body, through paying attention, through the hands in the sand. Then I ask them to visualize a circle of nurturing and protection around them because part of doing a successful sandtray is for the person to feel safe, protected, nurtured and at home. Individual sandtray is private-the door to the room is closed. A safe and intimate space. Then I suggest they begin to move their hands in the sand in any way that feels right to them.

Rachel: I know how important that would be for me, because as a child I was told that I could never get my hands dirty. So here I'm allowed to move in the sand and the earth.

Marion: Sometimes I have to say this twice. If the hands are not moving, I say it once again. This is a very important part; it's tactile. We're beginning to feel the energy in the hands, beginning to respect their wisdom. The hands have a special wisdom. But, Rachel, I imagine that in your practice, you might do it completely different.

Rachel: No, I've stolen a lot from you, Marion! I may not speak about "the great spirits" in my practice; it's a medical practice, but essentially I do the same thing: I ask people to allow the emptiness-to sit there and allow the emptiness-and realize that the empty space before them belongs to them. And they can do anything they wish with it. It's theirs. But first they need to allow it to be empty like that. And then I say to them, let your hands move in any way that feels right to you. And often people make patterns (I'm sure you've noticed this, too) in the sand that are extraordinarily beautiful. They're sitting with their eyes closed and I notice that their breathing changes when they do that. As they start to "own" the sandtray space, by moving their hands through the whole perimeter of it, in bigger and bigger circles, as I invite them to take up space in the world, they start to breathe more deeply; they start to own their breath and they breathe more deeply without my saying anything.

Marion: I don't know if you find this so, but I keep my eyes closed during this process too so that when we both open our eyes, it's very new. Everything's new.

Rachel: How wonderful.

Marion: Every time, I see everything new and I believe they do too, and so I say, "Allow your eyes to open. Let them be soft and receptive eyes."

Rachel: Yes. Without judgement.

Marion: This is the process that we use and it seems to work well-a good beginning.

Rachel: And then where do you go next when they open their eyes?

Marion: I talk about the process that we're about to go through. Just the bare bones of it. I invite them to take a basket and walk around the room and trust what they are attracted to.

Rachel: So, they walk past every shelf.

Marion: Yes-I say, "Just allow yourself to be attracted to what's important to you."

Rachel: "Allow yourself to be attracted to what's important" The other thing that I have heard you say when we do this with groups of doctors is, "Trust your feelings."

Marion: Trust your feelings. Of course.

Rachel: So people are literally told that they have permission to take whatever appeals to them, without needing to know why, without needing to ask anybody about it or justify their choice. They walk past every shelf and they just put things in the basket.

Marion: This part can take from three minutes to fifteen minutes. Sometimes people will avoid that part and just take the toys right from the shelf and put them right in the sand. That's just fine, too, but I like to divide it up into really practicing this part of it, practicing allowing yourself to be attracted to what is meaningful and gathering it to yourself.

Rachel: I think that this process of taking the things that are meaningful to you, without apology or explanation to anybody, is enormously important psychologically!

Marion: I agree. To be given permission to do this, sometimes for the first time.

Rachel: It opens them up to mystery, too, because some of the things that appeal to them, don't make any sense to them. You encourage them to trust their intuition, that impulse in them that says to them, "Take this." I've been in the sandtray room many times, and the things on the shelves stay on the shelves. But when I do my own sandtray, suddenly some of these very objects say, "I'm yours!" and leap off the shelves into my basket.

It's almost as if they're underlined with yellow pen, you know? The Jungians who invented this technique, call that quality numinous when an object in the outside world resonates with some symbol in the innermost unconsciousness of the individual. It has symbolic value; it has a meaning that the conscious mind of the individual may not know yet.

The person is attracted to this object because it represents part of their own integrity they don't know yet. So, you tell them to trust.

Marion: To trust their attraction to an object, not needing to know why they are attracted to it. I tell them that they don't have to worry about that now. " It could be a color; it could be a shine on something; it could be some thing that reminds you of something. It doesn't matter. And you don't have to worry about how the objects you chose are connected." That's a real important piece.

Rachel: You don't have to make sense of it.

Marion: No. No sense.

Rachel: The interesting thing is, of course, that once people put their objects down and make their scene in the sand, they discover that it makes sense of itself.

Marion: Exactly! Which brings us to the placement of these objects in the sand. I tell people, "Now, we're going to get in touch with the mystery of placement. Just start placing the objects in the sand."

Rachel: So they create their scene in the sand.

Marion: They create their own world. A very important part of it is that there will be the moment when they'll know that it's complete, this scene. That there are just the right number of objects in it, and just the right placement.

Rachel: Do you talk while they're doing this?

Marion: It varies. Whatever works to keep up the comfort zone. Some people can be more relaxed and less mental when they're chatting. For other people, total silence is what's needed. But mostly I sit on the other side of the table and I watch. I witness. I trust this process they are in.

Rachel: I think it's worth saying, by the way, that I am a physician and Marion is an artist and we both guide sandtray in our own way . Neither one of us does this the way Jung described it. Or the way that the Academy of Sandtray does it. We have taken this particular tool and made it very much our own, and also allowed it to shape itself to the needs of people with cancer. I think that's what has made it so effective. We do this in our own way-and each person we work with does it in their own way, too.

Marion: Exactly! It has been a total adventure. An exploration. We're always discovering and learning. Always new, no burnout!

Rachel: Sandtray can convey a sense of something about a person to that person and about life. A sense of wonder, mystery and awe about life and the unconscious mind. That is what I think we transmit and evoke and encourage in the people who are doing the sandtray.

Marion: Exactly. I do not analyze these trays at all. I simply watch them. I'm a witness to the creative process of the person in front of me. That position permits a mutual learning to go on, a healing in a sense. Just the clarity and the joy of witnessing and not analyzing or judging or interpreting.

I think, though, Rachel, you do it a little bit differently. What would you say about the process of being there for you?

Rachel: It's interesting. I think the process of just being there is the most important thing. It's very much like when we do the poetry. The person has created something in the sand which is now visible for the first time. What you call "witnessing," I've watched you doing this; I would call it both receiving and accepting the other person. You validate it without words by the focus of your attention, and convey that what they're doing has significance, importance, meaning, value.

Marion: I think that's very true and in fact I feel like a midwife to something very important that's emerging, for the first time.

Rachel: It does feel that way. It feels very feminine. Perhaps it is about emergence; it's about giving birth to yourself. One uses the feminine side of oneself in working with people in sandtray, and that feminine self is nurturing and accepting of people's integrity and uniqueness.

I've discovered that everything a person does has symbolic meaning. The way they do the sandtray, the way they approach it is the way they approach life. The fact that there are certain things that don't fit into their existing life and are still in the basket. These are "unused" things, "unused" parts of themselves. I'm interested in what those things are.

Once we were doing this with this Type A physician who had to use two baskets. There was so much on the shelves that attracted him, so much that he wanted to do that he couldn't get it all in one basket. He filled two baskets, and he could barely fit everything in the sandtray. All these gorgeous things were piled on top of each other, higgledy-piggledy in his tray. There was three times as much stuff in that tray as I've ever seen in a tray. Then I saw him put something under his chair that he couldn't fit in the tray at all. He explained the meaning of everything he had put down in the tray. It took thirty minutes just to describe and explain.

When he had finished, I asked him, "What's under your chair?" He says, "Nothing." I said, "It belongs to you too, the thing under your chair. Would you take it out?" It was a beautiful wooden zebra. It's big. I said, "What about this?" He said, "There's no room for it in the tray." I said, "How do you feel about it?" He said, "It feels very precious to me." I said, "How come it's under your chair when it's so precious to you?" He says, "There's no room for it in this tray." I said, "What is the quality of this thing?" And he said, "It's beautiful." And I said, "Look deeper." He says, "Peace." And that's the story of this man's life. He saw it immediately, that peace was very precious to him, but there was no room for it in the way he has built his life. And so he has kept it under his chair. And, of course, this man is dying from lack of peace. I said, "You can't put it down-it's yours-you have to carry it with you until you can find a way to put it in the tray."

So I stick with that, because I discovered that there are no random pieces. What's so interesting is, of course, when people select things, they think they're doing it at random. Once they start talking about their tray to you, they discover that these things have enormous meaning that they had not suspected. Just like life.

Marion: That's right. And there are no random words, either. When somebody comes into a sandtray room, I take every word as somehow part of the sandtray. Like, "I can't find the right mate." Well, okay.

Rachel: That may be more than just not being able to find a little person on a shelf or the second shoe of a little pair of shoes.

Marion: I used to take it personally, thinking that it was my fault that I hadn't provided the right male or female item in the collection, but now I realize that it's not about the collection-it's about this person's life.

Rachel: We've said so much. Let me summarize: The first step is the putting of the hands in the sand, and the meditation. The second step is the gathering up of the objects and the third step is placing them in the sand. The fourth step is talking about what has been done. Let's share what we really do in this step. I've often wondered what you do. You always get these great results.

Marion: The first question I ask is "What is the overall feeling of this tray to you?" And very often I will get words that are not feeling words, so I just keep saying, "What is the overall feeling? What does it feel like to you?"

Rachel: What do you get, words like "interesting?"

Marion: I get every word you can imagine other than a feeling word. But I keep gently asking the question, "What is the feeling of this tray?" and once answered I move on to the question, "Is there a title?" And I say, "That's fine if there isn't one. That's okay." But if there is one, what is it? Sometimes the title emerges only at the end of the forty-five minute session.

And then I say, "Well tell me how the story unfolds. Where would you start?" That's a real important question. Another important question is, "What's the most compelling part of this tray for you?" Often there is one part that's most compelling or a piece that is most important. So they just start talking. And then slowly, slowly there's a whole story. There's a revelation.

Rachel: You ask a lot of questions. "Tell me about this?" "What does this say?" "What's this?"

Marion: Yes. I'll say, "Look, this little gorilla is looking at you. It looks like it wants to say something. Do you feel that? And if so, what's the message here?" Or, "It looks like these three holy figures are having a conversation. What are they talking about? Do they have a message for you?" I ask little childlike things like that.

So we put words to what is happening in the tray. Children do this naturally. They often talk to their objects when they put them in a tray. They'll just talk right along. It's all them and it's all drama.

I try to listen to the story that unfolds through the objects to see if the little figures have any meaning and often they do. Once the story is told, I ask the question, "Is this enough for today, or would you like to take something out now, or put something new in." About half the time, it's perfect the way it is even though there may be pain in it. And half the time something new wants to be added, some next step.

Rachel: That's very interesting. "It's perfect even though there may be pain in it." There's a way that the acceptance that you offer as a witness, allows the person to say, "This is where I am. This is my truth. This is my life. This is what's so." And by your attention, you say, "Yes. I see it." And that is an interchange that has a great deal of power in it. It's very enabling for people who may have avoided or been ashamed, or simply not known what is so.

Marion: I would like to hear about your way.

Rachel: I watch, too. While the objects are placed, I watch. I give it my full attention. I say nothing. And I let myself (my own intuitive mind) wonder, or read pattern, or see connection, or what have you. Then I'll just say to someone, "Tell me what's here. What do you see here?" I can ask other questions-until they tell me everything they want to. "What appeals to you? What is the most mysterious part of this tray for you? What is the most familiar? Which is your favorite place here? Is there any movement in this tray? What is it? Which way is it moving? Is it going from right to left?" Just questions.

I get people to walk around the tray and look at it from the other side, to see what it looks like from the other side. I often stand up with them and look at it from above. Often it looks very different to them from above, and they're astounded. "Gee, this piece that was so big when I was sitting is not really so big or so frightening!" or, "I see it's related to this or that." They see the overall pattern-and new patterns and new meanings.

As they talk, they are often very surprised by what's there, by what they had put there. I don't ask them to move anything. I don't really give them an opportunity to change anything. It's like, "This is that which is, this is now." But the thing that I ask often, is, "Do you see any patterns here?" Or, "What's needed?" Sometimes I have them go and get another piece which is the piece they feel is missing.

But the other thing I say is, "Does this remind you of anything in your life?"

Marion: The object, or the whole tray?

Rachel: Either. And it often opens up a whole other discussion about their parents, their father, their mother, the frustration of their illness. I also ask for the feeling or title at the end-not at the start.

Marion: Wonderful! I think the reason that I dare to bluntly ask them, "Is this pattern okay for you, and if not, do you want to look again," is because I only work once with the people I work with-maybe if I'm lucky, twice-and then they're gone. This is a difference between your work and mine. You work in an ongoing way.

Rachel: Yes-it works well to do it either way.

We should talk a bit about the remarkable innovation that you have created in what might be called the Group Sandtray. Marion has built a round table which is about five feet across and holds sand. So it's a big, round sand table, not a sandtray. It allows groups of people to work simultaneously and witness each other's work. Marion lays down sticks so that each person has a wedge shaped slice of the sand table, in which to lay out their own sandtray. People in the group work simultaneously and then it is not just Marion who hears someone talk about the meaning of what they've put in the sand, but all the other people sitting around the table listen to each other, witness each other. Sometimes the process can take as long as two or three hours. But the level of intimacy that emerges is extraordinary.

In doing an individual sandtray, most people are astounded to find that deep in them there is an intelligence or a wisdom which is unconscious and which can be invoked and evoked and can speak. To see that this happens not only for you but for all other people as well is to come to trust the human process even more deeply than when you are doing an individual tray, I think.

Marion: I agree with you, Rachel!

There are practical aspects to creating a group sandtray. At Commonweal the sandtray table is up on the third floor, and the toys are downstairs in the sandtray room. So, we do the discussion and the meditation in a separate room. Then I offer everybody a basket and they go together into the room we described earlier, all eight of them. In absolute silence they all walk around and choose their objects. Then in silence they walk up the stairs and sit around the group sandtray table.

Rachel: Each carrying a basket full of toys.

Marion: Right. They go up and sit in front of their part of the sand table and wait in silence until everybody's there. The sand is perfectly smooth, like new snow. They sit around the empty tray in the peace of unknowing.

Rachel: I love the ritual that you do next!

Marion: Yes. Once everybody is seated we do a ritual of connection. We do four gestures of connection:

I say, "First connect to yourself." Each person places their hands over their hearts and I say, "Then connect to spirit." They raise their hands over their heads. Then I say, "Now connect to Earth," and they put their hands into the sand. And lastly I say, "Connect to each other," and they put their arms around each other's shoulders.

Rachel: It's an extremely beautiful thing to watch eight people do this. They're sitting in chairs around a round table and it looks like a flower of some sort opening and closing. And especially the last movement. It seems to create a sacred and private space for the work. Everyone's arms around everyone's shoulders.

Marion: That's true. It does. Safe and sacred. Almost alchemical.

Rachel: Those four movements are a sort of ritual. Through them we have created a space where the mysterious, the unseen, can become visible.

Often people will say that once they've done a group sandtray, the other people never look the same to them. The mask that the other person presents, the "You look like you never had any pain, you look like you're on top of everything," is dropped. Each can see the authentic person which emerges in every tray. It is a very powerful experience for every other member of the group, very intimate and moving.

Marion: I agree with you. It's such a powerful way for a group to bond. I had a wonderful experience the other day doing a group tray with people in different decades, from a young man of twenty to a grandmother of sixty. To be able to hear this range of human experience was quite a gift for us all.

Rachel: It's a witnessing of the collective human wisdom. I think the group tray is a lot more powerful than an individual tray. The thing that has always intrigued me is that some people who appear quite fragile, perhaps they're very advanced in their disease or what have you, will do a tray of great power and strength. It's very interesting for other people to see that.

Marion: I consider these collective sandtrays a gift.

Often the tray seems like an altar made by a group which indeed allows altering to happen. Usually, traditionally, the altar is placed at one end of a sacred space like a church. The people are at one end and the altar is at the other. But here, indeed, we are creating an altar in the space between us, and this feels very new and very exciting and very holy, really.

Rachel: You know, doing this with you has made me aware of how many symbolic items I keep around me, items that I hadn't realized had symbolism. I have them close to me because for some reason, I may unconsciously want to remind myself of aspects of myself that I need in order to live. They are next to my phone or on my kitchen window sill. Places like that.

You know, you sometimes talk about the "life sandtray," Marion. Would you say something about this now?

Marion: We attract to ourselves different people, different animals, different objects, at various times in our lives. In sandtray we get to notice this phenomenon. I feel sandtray does sensitize people to a greater awareness of their choices. The fact is that we always surround ourselves with symbols that are of value and have meaning, symbols that evoke or remind us of parts of ourselves and often we don't consciously recognize what we're doing. Life is a sandtray.

Rachel: I took the group sandtray idea into a training for our Hospice here in Marin. The entire staff of the hospice was there, forty people, from the people who answer the phones to the nurses and physicians. I asked each one of these people to bring an object from home that embodied or represented the meaning of their own work at hospice. Forty of us sat in a circle and each person described the meaning of their object aloud to the others and then put it down in the circle creating a sandtray out of objects that each one of us had brought from home. For the first time this group of very complex people who work on three stories of a building could experience how they all fit together and how each one of them was bringing something unique which made the whole hospice what it was.

It was very, very powerful.

Marion: This is a way of doing sandtray work without the sand, without the tray, without the toys.

Rachel: And without buying a single thing.

Well, what is it that we're doing here, Marion? What is it that comes through that is so powerful and so meaningful and so useful? What is it?

Marion: Well, you know, it feels very important to me. It feels unusual as well because in our culture we move so fast in such a linear way that we are often not in relationship to each other. We are so cognitive. We wear masks, we very seldom sit down and just listen to one another, or ourselves. We very rarely speak our truth. And, I don't know about you, Rachel, but I find this work incredibly soothing. It's something that I need.

Rachel: Yes. I find it very comforting, too. I am comforted by the mysterious, by the thought that there may be unknowable purposes in life. Patterns emerge in the sandtray which help people recognize that their pain, their suffering may not be random, chaotic and meaningless. Meaning emerges. And for me, this is deeply, deeply comforting.

Marion: Amen. I agree completely with that. An insight that came to me the other day was that it's a multi-dimensional pattern that comes together and is visible.

Rachel: Oh, that's interesting. I didn't understand what you were saying before. You mean that it's an experience of wholeness, of the unifying pattern moving through mind/body/spirit and feelings. And that it has meaning on every level.

Marion: That's it.

Rachel: So wholeness emerges. And, of course, the emergence of wholeness is what healing is about. So, it's a moment of healing for everyone there: where the underlying wholeness becomes visible in the midst of the pain, in the midst of the wounding, in the midst of the fear.

Marion: And when that happens, there's a deep silence, a deep recognition and an okay-ness about it all, just as it is, and if it happens in the tray-it may be happening in life, their life, as well.

Rachel: Having that recognition and experiencing that okay-ness in the presence of another person, seems very important. It seems to give people the strength to deal with all the uncertainties because on another level, life has pattern; it has meaning. It has purpose. And because of this, it can, in a funny way, be trusted.

Marion: It's important because so many of the people that we work with have experienced the opposite. Both physicians and patients have experienced fragmentation and disassociation in their search for healing.

Rachel: Isolation, too.

Marion: Isolation, and disconnection.

Rachel: And randomness. Even more important, they themselves do not feel heard or seen; they're one of many people who will pass through a medical facility and be gone.

Marion: That's so. For patients and health professionals.

Rachel: I think it's also important to say this: We do not do sandtray as it was intended. You have found a way to do it which works very well for us here with the populations that we are working with. The one thing we do use that's traditional is the individual sandtray itself. It has a certain set of measurements. It measures twenty-eight and one half inches inside by seventeen and three-quarter inches and outside it measures thirty inches by twenty-one and one-quarter inches. Inside it's painted blue, outside it is natural wood and it is filled with sand. This is the only truly traditional part. All the rest is about taking this extraordinary tool and adapting it in the same way yoga is adapted here for people with life-threatening illness. We adapt sandtray to the needs of people who are facing death, bodily loss, change and great fear.

Marion: That's right. So, I'm hoping that people who are listening to this tape will be inspired to really be creative in their approach.

Rachel: There is no right way to do this. Just listen carefully to the people you work with and they will show you what works for them.

Marion: That's right. Each person's situation's very unique. There are no rules.

Rachel: I feel enriched by this work. Don't you feel the sandtray work is enriching? It's funny that many oncologists and physicians feel burned-out by working with people with cancer. Perhaps they don't have the chance to meet them on a deep enough level.

Marion: It's a privilege to watch somebody allow their creative energy to shine, sometimes for the first time, right in front of you. My heart is full from this work. I wish there were more ways to bring it into everyday life situations-corporate settings, hospitals and the like.

Rachel: I want to mention one last thing that you had said to me a while back. I was talking to you about the difference between doing this work as an artist and doing this work as a health professional and you said, "Artists trust the unknown. That's where it starts, with a blank canvas, the place of not-knowing." Artists relate to the unknown differently than doctors and nurses and psychologists relate to the unknown. I was trained to see the unknown as the enemy. You have made the unknown an opportunity. Hundreds of people with cancer have learned from you; how to relate to the unknown in a way that is far more healthy and far more empowering than the way I was taught in medical school. I think that's what sandtray does. It starts with an encounter with the unknown, the empty space, the mysterious, and it allows authentic meaning to emerge. As you see meaning emerge in this small way in the sand, it helps you trust that this same process of emergence is involved with you in your own life when you have cancer.

Marion: It's a very exciting moment when an artist such as myself, who is intrigued by the process of healing works with a physician such as you, Rachel, who is intrigued by the process of creativity! I think that is why it has been such a wonderful collaboration and useful to people with cancer-and why the two of us have grown so much from this work.

Rachel: The process of healing and the process of creativity are probably very close to each other anyway.

Marion: Yes, it seems we've been very fortunate to witness that.

Rachel: Thanks, Marion.

Marion: Thank you, Rachel.

Overview | How to Build a Group Sandtray | Basic Group Sandtray Process
Interview with Marion Weber | Sandtray Resources